Our Comment: Thanks, Robbie... and congratulations on the success of your work.

Interestingly, 1940s HORSA classrooms were supposed to last 10 years - sufficient time for secondary modern schools to be built and grammar/techs to be extended/replaced. However, if you look around the internet, you will find that some were still being used in the 1990s.

It's all a bit different today. Government "Ekukation, Ejukation, Ejukation" initiatives seem to be leading to massive rebuilding programs everywhere. However, I look at all this investment and wonder if it has actually made the slightest difference. I seem to stumble across so many youngsters who find Maths and English completely beyond them. It just goes to show that "good education" isn't merely a question of buildings and equipment. 

I don't mind pouring money into an education system..... provided that it doesn't simply flush around an academic U-bend and down a drain!!! ;-)

Our Comment: Thanks, Vince. I never took much interest in the Bear & Key of the 1960s. However, I did go in there once and I was fascinated by the fact that it had an even older pub sign on the wall of the entrance hall - containing the famous bear holding the key.

In recent years, the building has been revamped as a Prezzo Italian restaurant with flats above. No-one seems to know where the pub signs have disappeared to. That includes both the one hanging outside and the older one on the interior wall. If anyone knows.... Whitstable wants them back!!!!! ;-)

The tramp was a well known character and, despite his off-putting appearance, he was an "okay guy" who just kept "himself to himself". Mind you he did scare the life out of a friend one night. My friend was making his way home from South Street to Tankerton in the early hours and decided to use the old railway line. Halfway along the track, he spotted a large shape moving ahead of him. He decided that he had to keep going no matter what. Eventually he realised that the dark shape was simply our harmless tramp. They passed each other without a word.

Life is so complicated nowadays that I often wonder if I should become a tramp. At the moment, millions of people go off to do jobs they hate so that they can enjoy themselves watching Jeremy Kyle, Noel Edmonds, Graham Norton and Big Brother on a 60" widescreen. What a world!  Who wants a 60" wide Jeremy Kyle, Noel Edmonds or Graham Norton anyway?  ;-)

Our Comment: Thanks, Brian. There was no proper pitch at Oxford Street in the mid-late 1950s either and senior boys used Church Street playing fields. However, there was a substantial grass area located between the school and rear of the houses in Argyle Road. Although this was just a multi-purpose facility with no fixed football equipment or line markings, it was used for less formal football games organised by teachers for younger pupils. Such games used simple moveable posts for goals.

The field is shown on the 1940s plan of our Whitstable Boys School "Origins and History" page (click here). At that time it butted on to the very large school garden. It remained throughout the 1950s and, at least, into the 1960s. However, its surroundings changed a bit in the late 1940s as a result of the school leaving age being raised to 15.

At that time, extra temporary classrooms were built at either end of the field to accommodate the increased number of pupils. These were the familiar white prefabs that adorned most schools of that era and they were officially known as HORSA units. (HORSA was an acronym for "Hutted Operations for Raising School Age").

At the eastern end of the field, HORSAs were built on part of the school garden. These were used by the Endowed Girls School (as an overspill facility for their crowded school at the rear of St Alphege Church) and they had a small playground with the netball court referred to by Vince. At the western end of the field (close to Oxford Street), another block of HORSAs was erected for the boys. 

At some stage, most of the "western" HORSAs were taken over by St Alphege Infants who were cramped for space at their small premises close to Oxford Street traffic lights. St Alphege also acquired some of the Endowed overspill HORSAs. Thus, by the mid-1950s, the Oxford Street complex was serving 3 schools (Boys, Girls and Infants).... just as it had back in the 1870s when it was first built.

A late 1950s photo of the field appears on our Whitstable Boys "Class Photos" page (click here). This shows the Endowed overspill HORSAs in the background. 

The HORSAs were supposed to be temporary until the Sir William Nottidge Secondary School could be built at Bellevue Road. However, they remained for many years after the Nottidge opened. The field also remained into the 1960s and beyond but I believe it was eventually covered in tarmac to form an extra playground. I am not sure what it looks like now as much of the Oxford Street school complex has undergone substantial redevelopment - including the construction of a completely new St Alphege Infants school.

Our Comment: Thanks, Vince. The book "Ales and Tales" is listed on the Amazon Book Co at....

www.amazon.co.uk 

Both new and used copies may be available. The pub on Borstal Hill is "The Four Horseshoes" and it is still there.

I used the Coach & Horses after Sunday football matches. In those days, it was one of the few places that sold ice cold lager from a fridge - very nice after a game on a hot day. The place had recently been renovated with a swish modern bar and a cheery guy called Geoff Pavey had just become the landlord. Geoff actually stood for election to the Whitstable Urban District Council. However, as an independent, things were stacked against him. There were two seats up for grabs at that time and "party" voting pretty much put paid to his efforts.

If people really want to elect an independent, I suspect that they need to use only one of their votes... otherwise their second vote can virtually cancel out their first one. The other option is for two independents to co-operate... but, then, they cease to be independents and  become a small party!!!! ;-)

I don't know of a direct bomb strike on the school grounds but I am sure some of our "more senior pupils" will be able to advise. Of course, shrapnel may have landed from explosions in the Regent Street/ Warwick Rd/ Acton Road areas.

Our Comment: Thanks, Mel.

Our Comment: My apologies, Garth. I have amended the page and updated your location details. I did manage to get you both mixed up!!!! I was at Oxford Street Boys with Glyn back in the 1950s.

Our Comment: Thanks, Vince. If you haven't seen it already, you and your dad may be interested in a book called "Ales and Tales" by Geoffrey Pike, Mike Page & John Cann  (ISBN 0951582836 Whitstable Improvement Trust -1993). It gives details of Whitstable pubs and includes many old ones that I bet your dad won't even know about. It would be a nice belated birthday present for him. ;-)

Our Comment: Thanks, Robbie. It may well be that St Alphege used the buildings under the railway arches as air raid shelters. Those premises were part of the original Whitstable railway station.

Westmeads Infants (and probably the Endowed) had brick shelters constructed alongside the playgrounds. In the 1950s, the Westmeads structures were used as storerooms and they appear to have remained to this day.

Oxford Street Boys School had similar shelters alongside the school gardens and playing field. Some of these also remained until fairly recently. Again, I believe that they served as storage areas.

One of the oddest uses of wartime shelters was at Herne Bay Junior School. These were located alongside the school playing field. As a member of the Oxford Street Boys football team, I played there in 1959. The air raid shelters served as changing rooms despite the fact that they were damp and windowless. We won 12-0. ;-) 

Our Comment: Thanks, Rosemary. Looking at our "Whitstable at War" feature it would be easy to feel that Whitstable was severely hit. It was certainly horrendous but it was nothing compared to London - particularly the East End (ie docklands) and SE London.

As a railwayman, my dad was in a reserved occupation and he was quickly transferred from Whitstable station to become a shunter at marshalling yards in SE London. The yards and surrounding areas were hit night after night. In the end, the shunters got so fed up that they decided that they would "make more noise than Hitler". So, they collected all the saucepans and frying pans in their staff lobby and spent some air raids singing and banging their kitchen implements!!!!!

Whole areas were flattened by bombing. However, the thing that stuck in dad's memory was that if anything was left standing it was usually the staircase (or chimney stack). He told me that this was why many people took shelter under the stairs if they couldn't be bothered to run for the air raid shelter.

After my parents were married, mum moved up to London to be with dad. They searched for a flat near his work and found one that they weren't sure about. After discussing it for a few days, they went back to sign the rental agreement but it wasn't there anymore. Neither was the street. 

As we know, a lot of the bombing was aimed at breaking the spirit of the people. The doodle bug was very much part of the psychological warfare. I seem to recall mum saying that the government kept rather quiet about the V1s to avoid panic and so people didn't know much about them until they started to appear. At that stage, they were greeted not just with apprehension but also a fair bit of curiosity. The first one that the family saw over Whitstable brought many people into their gardens.... whereupon my grandfather, in his normal forthright manner, announced that "There's no man in that b****r". It makes me wonder whether Hitler actually used similar words in the technical description of his requirements...... "I vont ze b****r with no man in  it".... whereupon Goering' issued the edict.... "Remove all ze men from ze b****rs".

Daytime viewing of a doodlebug sounds scary but I am not sure that "after dark" was much better. I am quite taken by the eerie description of V1s at night provided by Brian Smith on the V1 page of our Whitstable at War feature (click here).

Mum also told me that, once they got used to doodle bugs, the family would go out into the garden and "shoo" them on a bit by waving their arms. Mind you, by the time that they got the arm movements right, Hitler had demanded that "Ze doodlebugz stop ze infernal doodlingz...... and go upzee and downzee". That spec led to the V2 "rocket" which was much more difficult for the family to shoo onto Seasalter marshes because, travelling beyond the speed of sound, its first warning was the explosion itself. Thus, they weren't able to redirect the one that landed in London's Fields. They lost all their glass windows to that. During the 1950s, my mum continued to blame Hitler for draughts in the house..... due to the buckled window frames.

At some stage, my parents rented a house in Barnehurst... with an air raid shelter at the bottom of the garden. Apparently, my brother would giggle through air raids saying.... "Wheeee... Boooom.... Annudder one!" 

It was so different from my childhood of the 1950s!!!! The 1950s were very much a time of reflection amidst the many bomb sites and other remnants of wartime. With no telly, the family would sit around the fireside and my parents and granddad would pass on their war experiences. I like to think that Simply Whitstable is the electronic equivalent of those old fireside chats!!!! ;-)

Of course, things have changed enormously. In recent times, I have been staggered by the growing number of contestants on TV quiz programs who list their strong subjects as "celebrity, TV, film, and pop music".... and their weakest as "history, geography, maths, English, science and current affairs". They then prove it by naming all the children of Posh Spice and describing signs of cellulite on Madonna..... whilst failing to spot France on a map and being incapable of uttering the year in which WWII began!!!!! I think more fireside chats are needed... if we can find a serviceable chimney!!!!! ;-) 

Our Comment: Thanks, John. I hadn't really looked at the remaining walls surrounding the 1950s ticket office before. You can actually see an old fireplace and chimney breast in the photo. 

The closing of St Mary's school was a bit peculiar and I wonder about the reasons. It is true that nowhere was safe in those days as strikes on Whitstable weren't part of any grand design on the part of the Luftwaffe. They appear to have been more the result of accidents, mechanical failure and "off the cuff" opportunism. Thus, they were fairly random and affected even relatively remote areas such as Ham Shades Lane, Newton Road, South Street and even further into the countryside. However, there appears to have been quite a collection of hits in the centre of town - with the Horsebridge, Regent Street, Victoria Street, Warwick Road, Acton Road and Diamond Road the worst affected. This was very close to the main state/council and CofE schools (ie Oxford Street Boys, the Endowed Girls, Westmeads Infants and St Alphege Infants). I would have thought that St Mary's location in Northwood Road would have been far safer. 

One possible answer might have been that St Mary's lost its staff to the war effort. However, that doesn't seem all that likely as most were probably "nuns" and I can't see nuns manning anti-aircraft guns or working in munitions factories!!!

Another possible answer was that St Mary's did not have the necessary air raid shelters. (As we know, all the state and CofE schools gained brick shelters and these remained as convenient store rooms for decades after the war ended). However even this seems a strange argument as we have had mention of a shelter at the small Dunelm School which was just a stone's throw from St Mary's.   

If anyone has an explanation, perhaps they could let us know.

Our Comment: Thanks, Brian. I have been studying photos on p107 (Terry's Lane explosion) and p110 (Assembly Rooms explosion) of Doug Wests book "The Second Portrait of a Seaside Town". To my unqualified eye, the damage looks to have resulted from two explosions. However, I am always bit wary about these things as bomb blasts can create some unusual effects.

Both Doug West and John Harman have mentioned a "stick of bombs".... and this got me looking around the Internet for an explanation. The clearest comes from a 1940 article in the archives of the New Yorker - click here. Apparently, it was a collection of bombs (between four and twenty) released by a single press of a button on the release mechanism. The bombs fell in succession with the time  interval being determined by settings on the release gear. 

The resulting explosions would have occurred in a rough line that coincided with the direction of the aircraft and the spacing of the carnage would have been determined by the interval setting and speed of the aircraft. Of course, variables such as wind speed and wind direction would have modified the pattern a bit. 

Our Comment: Thanks, Dave.

Our Comment: Thanks, Vince. It's amazing how lager has taken over the world. In the process, it seems to have led to the demise of two popular beers of the past - bottled "Light Ale" and the draught "Mild". I don't think I have seen either for many years. 

Our Comment: Many thanks, John. The information you have given elaborates on material in the Whitstable at War feature and I think we need to update the article soon. In the meantime, I wonder if you could clarify a point.

I have always been confused by the destruction of the bus office and assembly rooms. I was never sure whether they were caused by the same or separate bombs. From you message, I presume that they were separate.

Our Comment: Thanks for pointing out the photo, Ian. Your view ties in with mine and I wonder whether there is a mistake in Doug's book "The Third Portrait of a Seaside Town" (ISBN No: 1 871716 00 4). On page 51, the book shows a shot of the East Kent Road Car Co ticket office and describes it as "the scene before the Second World War". However, the building appears to to be the one that I remember from the 1950s - AFTER the bombing. Even the public bench is in the same place.

I am not sure how true it is but I believe a family friend lived in a house in Victoria Street and she was extracted from the wreckage after the explosion. Much of her clothing was blown off but she was largely unharmed. Like many other people she was relocated and this made way for the damaged properties to be removed and rebuilt as Victoria Flats. Her new home was in Reservoir Road where, in 1953, she was flooded out!!!! It wasn't her best few years.

Those years presented the town with massive problems...

• war damage (both physical and psychological)

• the problems of re-integrating servicemen into the community

• employment issues

• flood damage

• inadequate sea defences

• a crumbling drainage system

• a road system that was inadequate for the fast expanding road transport

• declining traditional maritime industries

• closure of the C&WR and British Railway's withdrawal from harbour ownership

It was almost impossible for the small WUDC to cope and Whitstable failed to recover as fast as many other towns. The place went into serious decline. Many of the problems were still present when Canterbury City Council took over in the 1970s. I believe the Victoria Street car park may still have been a cinder-covered wasteland at that time.

It's interesting that problems present opportunities and a way forward. Decay rather than quick wholesale 1950s/1960s redevelopment left the town with its quaint architecture and modern day appeal - albeit in a run down state. Depression created low property prices and set the financial circumstances for the more chic redevelopment of modern times. 

The lower levels of the football pyramid are becoming quite a mystery. I spent most of last season wondering how many teams would be relegated.... despite checking the web sites of Ryman League clubs, the Ryman League itself and the FA. Now, it seems the rules were even more incomprehensible. How can anyone be expected to follow a club for an entire season without knowing precisely what it needs to achieve by May?

Mind you, keeping a few weak clubs at the bottom could provide Whitstable with a cushion if they run into trouble again. 

Our Comment: Thanks, Terry. You wouldn't believe the number of times I have regretted saying something on the web site... even after 11 years of practice!!!! 

VB entries need to be published quickly and the "our comment" is intended to give an immediate acknowledgement, relate the content to existing material and suggest some ways in which the discussion might progress. (I am not in favour of web sites that include messages without giving any kind of fast feedback). The problem is that editing has to be fitted in a few minutes between other activities. That gives plenty of scope for getting things wrong and mistakes can set off an unfortunate chain reaction!!!! 

Our Comment: Thanks, Chris. Our "Whitstable at War" article (Chapter 9) has several pages devoted to WWII bombings in Whitstable (click here). We don't have a lot of information on the Terry's Lane strike and it will be interesting to see if something emerges from our readers.

More is recorded about the Victoria Street disaster. This was arguably the town's most devastating explosion of the war but it wasn't actually a "bomb" in the normal senses of the word. It was a mine dropped by parachute from a German aircraft.

There was a dreadful amount of bad luck involved as the German aircraft probably intended to parachute the mine into the Thames Estuary to create a hazard for Allied shipping. The likelihood is that the parachute drifted onshore in the prevailing wind. I believe a couple of other mines found their way into Whitstable in this way. One is reported as landing in the Joy Lane area. 

The big problem with the Victoria Street device was that it drifted into one of the town's most densely populated areas (at the junction with Regent Street). As its purpose was to blow a large hole in the metal hull of a ship, I presume that it would have carried more explosive than a conventional bomb. 

I remember my dad talking about it. The thing he most remembered was the massive crater and the widespread area of carnage. The scene is shown on Page 109 of Doug West's book "The Second Portrait of a Seaside Town" (ISBN No: 0 9508564 6 0). In a broad sense, evidence of the disaster remains to this day as the bomb site became Victoria Street car park.

I would imagine that some of our readers will recall both the Terrys Lane and Victoria Street explosions.

PS Spike Marland was both my English teacher and form teacher in my first year at the Langton (1960/61). I believe he left the school circa 1961 or 1962.

Our Comment: Thanks, Bill. I cross referred to the V2 page of our Whitstable at War feature but forgot to include a link to the V1 page. It can be seen by clicking here.

Our Comment: Thank you, Toni. I can only apologise if I have given you the impression that I deliberately pick out particular contributors for criticism. That has never been my aim. 

However, as I have explained on a number of occasions, I do get concerned when someone asks for a particular discussion topic to stop because it doesn't interest them. It undermines the whole concept of the Visitors Book - ie that anyone should be allowed to raise anything of interest to them. 

Furthermore, it is wrong to think that one topic prevents other topics being discussed. Often, we have several issues "on the go" simultaneously. However, it is inevitable that there will be periods when only one subject is current because nothing else has been raised. Surely, the answer is for people to be creative and to raise new ideas... rather than make negative comments that could stop the discussions of others. 

If you think that I treat criticism of football matters differently, I cannot agree. If you look back through the Visitors Book, you will find a number of separate incidents when discussion of Whitstable Town Football Club has been criticised and I have been just as firm with my responses.  

I was particularly concerned about the railway station discussion for a number of reasons. The topic arose from a fascinating old aerial photo of the South Street district that a reader had taken the time and trouble to contribute. That photo interested many people and it led to a discussion of elements of the C&WR that have not been fully addressed in history books. At a time when we are planning a feature item on the town's railways, the cessation of that discussion would have been extremely unhelpful to say the least.

One aspect of Simply Whitstable is that it allows people to discuss their town's past and to appreciate how that history still plays a part today. The railways and railways stations had the most massive impact on Whitstable's development, character and relationship with the outside world. To prevent people discussing or contributing material about them would be very sad. After all, if a Whitstable web site cannot talk about some of the towns' most significant historical features, is there anything that it can discuss without attracting criticism? We might as well pack it in because very few subjects will ever be of interest to everyone.

I fully accept that my recent comments have been somewhat lower key than in the past. There are four main reasons for this.....

Firstly, the World Cup criticism largely concerned my involvement with the Visitors Book as I had raised the topic and I was the main contributor. (I can handle criticism of me rather better than I can put up with criticism of readers who have taken the time and trouble to contribute to the site). Secondly, the World Cup is a global event and not specifically a Whitstable topic. Thirdly, the criticism was not wholly negative because it suggested other topics for discussion.

The fourth reason is more difficult to explain. Basically, I have become a bit disillusioned.... because I simply cannot get across the relevance of the Visitors Book and the aims of Simply Whitstable to some people. On this occasion, I took a different line.... by offering to make changes. I hoped that these changes might be more acceptable whilst reducing my involvement in the site. So, rather than "two sets of values", there was just a change of outlook. All things are subject to change.

Turning to your final comment ("Get it right, Dave"), I am afraid I can make no promises. Handling the Visitors Book may look easy but it is actually the most difficult part of SW. I sometimes agonise over both the editing and my responses. As a normal human being trying to create something worthwhile, I make mistakes.... and, unfortunately, I will continue to do so.

When I first started work at the age of eighteen, I had a great manager. When I made my first mistake, he said.... "Listen, Dave... the only person  who never made a mistake was one that never did anything". That maxim has remained with me ever since. 

Our Comment:  Thanks, Vince. Forget the problem. It's over.... BUT, you owe me a pint of Carling!!!! ;-)

Our Comment: Thanks, Derrick.

Our Comment: Thanks, Terry.

Our Comment: Thanks, Vince.

Our Comment: Thanks, Martin. After 11 years, I don't actually get "hurt" by anything on SW. I just get to the point where I am not really sure what to do for the best.

Our Comment: Ahhh you have just brought back an 'orrible memory, Chris..... lumpy semolina with prunes thrown in the middle.

Hmm... I have just reviewed my response to Brian Smith in which I used the term "relatively unique". Of course, it could have been uniquely relative.... but that raises the subject of Uncle Sam and none of the family talk about him. 

I have a feeling that "Archie" Andrews, "Chopper" Meteyard and "Spike" Marland wouldn't have been too pleased with my phraseology. In fact, I think it might have made Spike's bow tie spin round. ;-)

Our Comment: Nice to have you back in town, Diana. Take in lots of Tankerton sea air.

Our Comment: Thanks, Brian.  I would just like to elaborate on your remarks here in order to explain a key but, hopefully, temporary problem.

Simply Whitstable was founded on a relatively unique three-tier structure. These tiers were....

• The Visitors Book

• The Chat Columns

• The permanent articles

The Visitors Book allowed anything to be discussed and, by so doing, it threw up many real gems of information and ideas - often in response to quite unrelated topics.  When these showed signs of developing they were transferred to the weekly Chat Column for more detailed discussion and the inclusion of photos/ initial research. (The Chat Column was divided into separate pages enabling people to bypass topics of no interest to them). Once a topic had been refined, it then became a permanent article - either written by me or a main contributor to the discussion.

Some of the best features on the site progressed in this way - including such things as the "Flood of '53" and"Whitstable at War" etc. Often, it encouraged people to get involved in research and to put pen to paper when they would not normally have dreamed of doing so.

The problem is that the Chat Column has been suspended for the moment. This is partly because we lost a lot of ground when our original web space was taken from us and my PC crashed. However, it is also because personal commitments have prevented me from editing a Chat on a weekly basis and knee problems limit my opportunities to get out and take photos. Chat columns are very time consuming and hard work when produced every 7 days.

The end result is that the Visitors Book is currently serving as both a VB and a Chat Column. Thus, comments are much more extensive than they would normally be and, for the first time, we are even including photos in the VB.

I am not unduly concerned about the "Our Comment" entries. It was simply an idea to give an immediate response to contributors and for people to feel that they were writing to real people rather than just an inanimate and unresponsive web site. In future, "Our Comment" can be used sparingly and can be confined to cross references to permanent articles or to supply info that has already been mentioned in past VB entries.    

Occasionally, I have initiated subjects via "Site Comments". I normally do this if we hit a period when contributions fall away or something controversial crops up around town. (The World Cup was one recent example. I thought it might be a common theme bearing in mind the worldwide SW community and the participation of countries like the US, Australia and NZ. I also thought it would be interesting to see how Natives abroad viewed it all). Again, I don't regard "Site Comments" as crucial and I am quite happy to exclude them so that all topics are raised by readers in future. 

As you have said, the "subject" issue and complaints crop up with monotonous regularity and, every time they do, we have to go through the same old rigmarole of explaining it all. I really don't want to get involved in this constant (quarterly?) argument... so let's make the changes I have mentioned above and put it to bed once and for all. 

In the future, I will try to re-introduce the Chat Column so that it can pick up the things that will now be excluded from the VB.