Our Comment: Thanks, Peter. That carries it all forward rather nicely and raises the question as to whether the tradition died out some time during the First World War. I am not sure why that would be so. Was the oyster industry and family life disrupted by local men volunteering to serve King and Country?

The information also raises interesting questions about the possible date/era that the tradition commenced.... but history and legend combine to confuse as outlined below!!!!

Legend has it that, after martyrdom in AD 44, the remains of St James were taken to and held at Santiago de Compostela in Spain. However, it seems that they were forgotten during years of Roman persecution and subsequently rediscovered in the 9th century. 

The legend of the knight takes a couple of different forms. One talks about a knight and horse falling from the ship. Another suggests that it was man riding a horse along a Portuguese beach who plunged into the sea to reach the vessel. Either way, St James gained an emblem - the scallop. 

However, even this causes confusion. In some countries of continental Europe, the scallop is regarded more as a cockle. In fact, the French for a scallop is "coquille St. Jacques" which translates as "cockle or mollusc of St James". This is consistent with another legend whereby St James is said to have appeared at the head of Spanish troops at the Battle Clavijo (between the Christians and the Moors) in AD 841. He was said to be riding a horse covered in cockleshells..... not the most convenient of attire but pretty symbolic in the world of legend. ;-)

Santiago de Compostela became the third most venerated city in the Christian world and one of the most important places of pilgrimage in Western Europe. Pilgrims are said to have worn cockleshells or scallop symbols on their clothes while attending the shrine. The popularity of pilgrimages to Santiago de Compostela gained particular popularity in the middle ages. 

At some stage in England, the legends appear to have been more specifically linked to the oyster. As we have said, the English took to eating oysters on St James Day and children took to building oyster shell grottos. I have seen it suggested that the grottos may have been more than just fun. They may have been a substitute for those who could not visit the shrine of St James at Santiago de Compostela.

So where does that leave us. There are a number of possible commencement eras for English celebrations....

1. Sometime after AD 44 when the remains of St James were transported to Spain and a knight was remiss enough to fall of his horse while taking a ride around the deck....as you do!!! This is very unlikely. Admittedly, the Romans were partaking of Whitstable oysters but the whole "St James and the scallop" business doesn't appear to have arisen until the Spanish became involved and St James gained a shrine in the 9th century.
    

2. The 9th century is very vaguely possible because St Augustine had established the modern day catholic church in England in the 6th century. However, it is very unlikely. The Spanish legends had to bed themselves in and pilgrimages to Santiago de Compostela didn't really take off until the middle ages.
    

3. The middle ages (1066-1485). If pilgrimages had started, it could have led to those oyster shell domes as substitutes for visiting the real shrine in Spain. However, as yet, we have no real evidence. 
    

4. Some time between 1500 and the early 19th century. 

In terms of Whitstable, we know from Brian Smith's research and comments that celebrations were taking place on Grince Green (near the site of the Two Brewers pub) in the mid 19th century and that Whitstable children built the shell grottos. Grince Green is thought to have been close to the remains of an old church and a road that once included the name "St James" in its title. If the history of that church was fully known it might throw quite a bit of light on it all... and wouldn't it be great if it was found to be dedicated to St James. It would make me want to ride through the town on a horse covered in shells! ;-)

Where does that leave the Whitstable Oyster Festival. Well, I don't know about anyone else but my opinions have changed during the course of our discussions. Perhaps I could sum it up with a few bullet points....

• Potentially, the festival could lay claim to a bit more history and tradition than I had previously thought. However, some of the traditions appear to be widespread rather than specific to Whitstable.
   

• Traditions extend back to at least the early-mid 19th century and could conceivably go back further. On the basis of our discussion so far, a Norman (or earlier) connection is largely speculation. A late middle age (eg 14th or 15th century) is possible as it ties in with the growth of the pilgrimage but it is unproven.
   

• The current day festival is a modern creation based extremely loosely on possible history. It doesn't fully exploit the historical/legendary ties or really attempt to recreate possible traditions. Similarly, it links to St James Day without exploring the significance of James beyond the fact that he is the patron saint of oysters. I think the St James story is one of the keys to understanding so much of it all and, without a decent explanation, a lot of local people are going to remain sceptical as it never formed part of their childhood exeperience or knowledge of Whitstable.
   

• In effect, the Oysyer Festival is an event (or program of events) that celebrates a traditional industry and keeps alive one of the town's main claims to fame rather than reflecting or recreating tradition itself. There is no reason why it shouldn't do this of course and it does provides a lot of fun.    

Is that a fair summary... or have I got it wrong?

Our Comment: Thanks, Ian. That adds nicely to Brian's comments about the St James Day celebrations at Grince Green. As you say, the oyster shell grotto was something that largely died out (along with the Grince Green festivities) in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. It's going to be difficult to discover when it started. 

In replying to Terry Phillips, I mentioned that some festivals have their origins partly in such things as commercial markets (particularly around Sept/Oct) or the commemoration of events such as the granting of fishing rights etc. However, I doubt that a local market would have played a big part in Whitstable celebrations as the town was too small and oysters would probably have been "exported" to markets elsewhere (eg London and Canterbury). Even more important, the local celebration appears to be tied to the "out of season" St James Day. This tends to point to a more religious connection which spilled over into some small scale secular activities. It certainly seems likely that a local church would want to make services relevant to the local people and would make something of St James Day.

However, I suppose it is still possible that there could be some commercial overtones. I am fascinated by the suggestion that Londoners started to eat oysters on St James Day and that London children built domes with the discarded shells. Is it possible that Whitstable supplied out of season oysters to the capital and, subsequently, the oyster dome tradition was imported to Whitstable from there? If this was the case, then the time around St James Day might have provided the first sales of oysters since the season closed in the spring. Of course, this is mere speculation and I am not even sure that fishing rights permitted the dredging of oysters during the spawning period.

One possible clue to the dating of a local religious celebration might come if it could be linked to a long lasting event. One possibility is the "Blessing of the Waters" which now also takes place close to St James Day. I have seen references to this local event dating from the mid-17th century but another dating it only from the early 19th century. I don't know if it has always taken place in July... but, if it has, it could have some connection with our other St James Day activities. 

A quick check of the Internet suggests that "Blessing of the Water" or similar ceremonies aren't tied to a particular date or period of the year. In fact, there are a few around the UK and the dates vary widely. It is also possible to tie them to different Saints' Days depending on the circumstances. For instance, I found one that was linked to St Peter's Day (29 June) - patron saint of fishermen. However, it would also be possible to use St Andrew (30 Nov) who is also given as a patron saint of fishermen. If that didn't suit, you could move things around bit and plump for one of a couple of patron saints of sailors!!!! Basically, just pick your day!!!

However, there are problems with linking the Blessing to oyster matters . The ceremony tends to be a more general service encompassing all marine activity and not specifically oyster dredging . However, the content may have changed gradually over the centuries as the town's maritime activities broadened.

Another possible tie up is with the Regatta (dating from 1792). However, descriptions of the early staging of this event don't show any link with religion or specific oyster traditions. It seems more a case of it being a competitive sporting event in which locals demonstrated their prowess on water. (Note: Often such water-based sports had benefits in enhancing skills and improving designs. I have heard that barge races played some part in enhancing the designs of the Thames Barge!!!!). 

In looking at other oyster festival sites, it is interesting that quite a few events are purely modern creations. Others had fairly confused histories from which the Oyster element later emerged as the key aspect. Maybe that is the way to regard the Whitstable event - a modern creation (with some historical basis) that more generally celebrates an industry and attracts tourism rather than relying on or resurrecting any specific traditions. If so, the local oyster is still providing commercial opportunities for local business without, perhaps, playing a big part in the sales itself. 

I am sorry this is a long and confused response but I didn't have time to write a shorter one. I just wanted to highlight a few quick points that people may find interesting to discuss.

Our Comment: Thanks, Terry. Incidentally, I forgot to comment on the current oyster problems that you raised. The ban on moving oysters from the North Kent coast stems form the fact that a virus (with the unfortunate name "herpes") has been discovered in some oysters. The virus affects the Pacific (Rock) oysters but not the Native oysters and there is no danger to human health. Nevertheless, it has the potential to be a major blow to the local industry.

It is sad to see the report in the Whitstable Gazette that suggests that less than half the oysters eaten at the festival will not have been harvested locally. In recent years, there are simply not enough to meet the demand..

Our Comment: Thank you Michael. However, the real thanks go to you for producing something that has given so many people so much pleasure over so many years.

For those who may not yet have a copy, the details are as follows...

"Whitstable in Old Picture Postcards" (ISBN 90 288 3420 6 / CIP, First Ed: 1986, Second Ed: 1988 )

We do try to make references to books fair by not reproducing photos, limiting quotes to short extracts and primarily cross referring to page numbers. In this way, we hope that Simply Whitstable acts as a starting point that encourages people to delve more deeply by obtaining copies of the publications. However, if any author feels that we have overstepped the mark at any time, I hope that they would get in touch so that we can correct any problems. 

Our Comment: Thanks, Terry. I think that many of us were surprised when the modern Oyster Festival was introduced because we had no knowledge or past experience of such a celebration. I don't even recall anyone constructing an oyster shell dome in my childhood days of the 1950s!!!!! It all seemed to come from nowhere at a time when Whitstable was regenerating economically via art, culture and tourism. Inevitably, this does leave me and, probably, other locals wondering about its authenticity. 

However, for the time being, I have started to keep an open mind on the subject. This follows Brian Smith's references to a celebration at Grince Green in the 19th century, a nearby (but now lost) old church and a nearby road that carried the name "St James".

How far back all this can be taken I simply don't know. Maybe, there is evidence somewhere that carries it back to Norman times and beyond. However, for me, it needs to be a bit more conclusive than seeming likely that oystermen would have had a ceremony of thanksgiving/blessing simply because most were churchgoers and St James is the patron saint of oysters. After all, why stop there. We can just as easily speculate that there might have been pagan ceremonies centuries before that!!!!!! The other issue is that, in early Norman times and before, the Whitstable area probably had a tiny and fragmented population. (I'll let Brian pick up on that one as I am a bit out of out of my depth!). 

There is also the problem that Whitstable already has two other more general maritime celebrations firmly embedded in its history. These are easier for us locals to relate to - the Regatta (commencing in 1792) and the Blessing of the Waters (start date not known). Together, these  cover both aspects of celebration emanating from the town's maritime history - secular fun and religious ceremony. Thus, one might argue that oyster festival activities should be part of those events rather than coagulating into a separate entity. It would certainly help traffic planning and event management. It might also help to secure the future of the Regatta which, in recent years, appears to have been heavily dependent on the goodwill and enterprise of the Lions Club! 

However, is it possible that the term "Oyster Festival" is considered more marketable than the word "Regatta" when it comes to impressing the clientele that now forms our tourist trade? Is an Oyster Festival for the outside world while a Regatta is for home entertainment. Is this the reason for the different perspective offered by local people compared to that of the modern day tourist marketing guru? ;-)

In looking at the web sites of other oyster festivals around the UK, I expected to find that such events had similar origins to that now offered in Whitstable. However, they seem to be a little different. They tend to celebrate things such as legal issues (eg the legal granting of fishing rights) and/or have their origins partly set in other types of non-oyster celebration. They also tend to be staged in September/October.

The September/October period is an interesting one. Of course, it is the start of the oyster season. However, it is also the time that harvests come to fruition. Thus, at that stage of the year, there were many types of celebration based around commercial markets (such as the Tavistock and Nottingham Goose Fairs) and religious services. These fairs allowed people to sell their surplus harvests, make money and buy things that they couldn't afford at any other time. Thus, the fairs were also attended by other trades such as shoemakers, basket weavers, tailors, potters etc - all keen to cash on the seasonal affluence. In brief, it was the time for a farmer (or other trader) to buy foodstuffs that he couldn't afford the rest of the year and invest in replacement boots and, indeed, a new pair of briefs. It was all done  with the money he received from his Cox's Orange Pippins and the transactions took place in an atmosphere of festive fun. It may well have ended in a slap up meal financed from his takings and supplied from a larder freshly stocked by his market purchases. Around that time of year, there would also have been religious services of thanksgiving such as harvest festivals.

The Autumn fairs and festivals would have been a great place to sell the first oyster catches and, therefore, oysters may have become part of those more general events. However, the further back in time we go, the smaller our town becomes and the greater my feeling that locals would want to market their products in a place like Canterbury rather than Whitstable. Thus any local celebrations would have been small, low-key, non-commercial affairs that probably bypassed the scribblings of the very early historians - irrespective of whether they took place in Autumn or on St James Day.

I am also fascinated by comments that fishermen would have had time to celebrate in July because it was the off season for oysters. That may be true but I do wonder. In the distant past, I understand that oysters were used to fill out pies because they were cheaper than meat. This suggests a low value product that may have required high volume sales to succeed economically. It also suggests that oyster fishing may not have provided the necessary savings to sustain families through the summer months. By July, fishermen could have been struggling if they were merely maintaining their boats, caring for "out of season" oyster beds and having a knees up. If you have a boat, long summer daylight hours, improved weather and calmer seas, wouldn't you fish for something else to keep the groats coming in? There is also the possibility that some fishermen may have turned to helping with agriculture and harvests in a small, close knit community. I don't see it necessarily as a time for making whoopee and I think it is unwise to lock ourselves into the idea that, some 800- 900 years ago, all oystermen were purely specialist oystermen. However, as a non-historian and non-fisherman, I am happy to be corrected.

At the end of the day, is an Oyster Festival a real product of a history or merely an event in search of one? It's a fascinating subject and I am sure it will cause a bit of thought amongst SW readers. 

Our Comment: Thanks, Brian. Your mention of the Two Brewers and Grince Green made me recall that you had mentioned this in your article on "The Highways to Canterbury". At that time you mentioned that the celebrations were still taking place in that area during the mid-nineteenth century  (click here to view).

It would be nice to sort it out once and for all. When you have time, would you be able to say when the Grince Green celebrations originated? Is there any evidence that dates specific oyster celebrations back to earlier centuries?

Someone is also going to have to teach me about the various St James's and the 25 July/5 August complication before I get to comprehend all this!!!! Do we have an Archbishop or Pope amongst our readership? ;-)

I know that there was a 10 day adjustment necessary when the Gregorian calendar replaced the Julian calendar in 1582.

Our Comment: Many thanks, John. I was counting on you helping out with these subjects.

Wave Crest is very interesting because it is totally out of character with that part of Whitstable. It is a set of Victorian guest houses that would be far more appropriate on Herne Bay waterfront. It's amazing how it towers above most other buildings and can easily be spotted from the hillsides around town. Of course, we have grown to love it... BUT would anyone agree to such a structure being built today?

Wave Crest is more confirmation that this small section was a little leisure beach set amidst the local maritime industry. For me, that is one of the really endearing memories of the 1950s..... the fact that we played, paddled, swam and dived just yards from someone building a boat!!! Many people say that West Beach hasn't changed much as many buildings still survive but it has. Not only has the usage changed..... the old characters have all disappeared!!!

Your mention of Carter and Peter Dadd painting the names on boats is another reminder that the maritime industries generated quite a bit of trade for related occupations. In the past we have also discussed blacksmiths and cabinet makers etc. These people straddled landbased and seabased interests. They also provided a way in which offspring could move away from a life at sea and yet remain in contact with it. 

Our Comment: Thanks, Tony. Special schools were often used as threat. As I said earlier, my mum threatened me with being sent to special school if I didn't eat!!!!

Our Comment: Thanks, Barry. Spain sounds great but I think I would need to be somewhere close to a sea breeze!!!!

Personally, I have always had mixed feelings about the Oyster Festival. When it first started, I felt that it was an unnecessary traffic jam on the way to the Regatta ;-) . In fact, one year, some friends actually missed the Red Arrows at the Regatta because they were unavoidably detained by a snarl up in the town centre!

Some time back, I spent a bit of time looking to see if there really was a historical basis for it all. I came to the conclusion that local people might just have had some small (possibly religious) "knees ups" to celebrate and give thanks for fishing harvests in the distant past... but only because I couldn't prove that they didn't. So, for the time being at least, I tend to regard it all as mere speculation - unless someone wants to rope in the more general "Blessing of the Waters" tradition. I was also left with two questions. If it really did happen, would it have taken place in July.... and would it have included the sort of activities of the modern festival?

A little foray around the internet located a number of oyster festivals. Most were simply modern ideas. The few that really did have some historical basis usually took place in September/October when the oyster season began and/or other harvests were coming to an end. As a result, people really did have something to celebrate. Even then, such festivals only dated back a couple of centuries at most and they didn't appear to me to be specifically dedicated to the oyster.

If there is any basis for a July celebration, it seems to tie in with St James Day (25 July), an old proverb ('Whoever eats oysters on St. James's Day, will never want money') and an associated custom in some areas of eating "out of season" oysters on that date in order to "not want money". Of course, the really big advantage of 25 July comes from a more modern and commercial proverb... ie "Whichever town organises an oyster festival on St. James Day will never want money.... because the whole sherbang will coincide with the school holidays and the arrival of the daytripper". ;-)

In fact, I wonder if the "Landing of the Oysters" ceremony could be supplemented by a "Landing of the Tourists" event. They could be collected in a big net and shaken so that all the money falls out of them. Blessed is the holidaymaker for he shall inherit the framed photo of the seagull on the breakwater at high tide. ;-)

Despite personal misgivings about it having anything much to do with Whitstable tradition, I am not unhappy with the festival because I just regard it for what it is. Over the few years it has been going, it has grown into a modern event that is enjoyed by the majority, doesn't do any harm and has an economic basis. Basically, it's fun. The only thing we need to be careful about is that it doesn't detract from the fact that our real traditions are The Regatta and Carnival. In that respect, it really is a junior partner. 

Our Comment: Thanks, Tony. It's a very interesting question and one for which people such as John Harman will be able to provide a few memories.

I believe the very first Whitstable Regatta (ie the main regatta) took place on 7 August 1792. So, it is deeply embedded in town history and, in comparison, the Whitstable Oyster Festival of the last few decades is a mere whippersnapper in terms of local culture. Those very early regattas probably took place off Whitstable as Tankerton hardly existed at that time. It was later that the show moved to the Tankerton Slopes area... probably via the Beach Walk area in the first instance.

I think that our readers will confirm that the 1920s West End Regatta (which took place at West Beach) was a separate thing even if it may have had some historic links with the main regatta when it was Whitstable based. I also suspect that it had two key motivators. Firstly, the Island Wall area was both the home and workplace of many local fishermen, boatbuilders etc and a localised regatta would have been a chance for them to have an afternoon of fun on their doorstep. (In those days. there weren't many Guardian readers in that area ;-) ). 

Secondly, there was quite a little holiday trade wedged between the boatyards. This centred around the Marine Terrace/Wave Crest stretch which was a bit of "leisure beach" that formed a small oasis amidst the industry. I remember John Harman telling me that Marine Terrace contained quite a few holiday lets and a string of fairy lights was always strung along the waterfront at that point. Often, the holidaymakers were regular visitors each year and got to know the locals. There were also beachside cafes (including the Red Spider and its predecessors). I believe John's dad operated boats for hire at one stage and I have feeling that there may have been some swingboats on the beach. 

Thus, the West End regatta would have been a time for locals and holidaymakers to let their hair down. However, knowing maritime folk, I am sure that sea-borne events would have been taken very seriously and there would have been quite a  competitive edge to it all. ;-) 

I am not sure when the West End Regatta started or when it ceased. I do not recall it taking place during my childhood in the 1950s but I am pretty sure that it must have been around in the 1930s and, possibly, the late 1940s.

Our Comment: Thanks, George. It would be interesting to know the extent of Peter Dadd's sign writing. I reckon an awful lot of signs were his work. I doubt that he worried too much about the economics of it all and probably charged below the true market rate. I am not sure if Peter painted many landscapes etc. Does anyone have a Peter Dadd water colour hanging on their walls?

 I arrived too late for many of the "horse and cart" deliveries/collections. Rigden's and Tolputt's were about the only ones left by the 1950s. I remember Fred Ridgen's horse causing a problem one lunch time as it broke free and came hurtling down the playground of the Oxford Street Boys School. I dived behind the teachers' cars near Mr Newsome's office as it galloped past.

My mum used to tell me stories of cattle running amok in the town centre of the 1920s. The animals tried to avoid the abattoirs at the rear of some of the butchers shops. I believe there was one in Skinners Alley at the rear of Theobald's and another in Harbour Street.

Most deliveries of the 1950s were by van but most things could be delivered including.... bread, meat, coal, newspapers, paraffin and general groceries. Most corners shops delivered. In fact, corner shopkeepers were amongst the few car owners in the town. Our local shop (Mitchell's of Teynham Road) owned a Morris Minor. Estate cars like Hillman Huskys were also very popular amongst retailers.

You've got me going now, George. One of the toughest and dirtiest jobs in town was that of the coalman. They arrived covered in coal dust and humped sacks on their backs before lifting/tipping it into our coal shed They couldn't even park outside our house because we lived alongside the Teynham Hill subway and they had to carry it 40 yards up the public pavement and then around the back of the house. Those guys were seriously fit.

All this leads me to my old f**t moan of the month. Just a few years back, I recall having a bed delivered. The delivery men deposited it in the hall and announced that they "Don't do stairs, mate..... 'cos of Elf and Safe T". I presume "Elf" and "Safe T" are trolls that live under staircases in the fairytales of the Brothers Grimm.  

More recently, I ordered a three piece suite from a well known national furniture chain. It was delivered weeks late and they spent a while trying to ram it through my porch door. That failed and so they rammed it through my back door. Both doors suffered damage and, a few hours later, I discovered that every item of the suite was damaged. There followed weeks of minor repairs and investigation before they offered to replace the whole thing. When the replacement arrived, we insisted on it being checked before it came into the house. So, they unpacked it in the road.... whereupon, we discovered that this too was damaged. In the end, we managed to cobble together a serviceable product amidst a growing traffic jam by selecting the better bits of both suites. 

After months of shouting at the company, I had had enough. I phoned them and told them to start thinking "compensation". I also told them not to insult me with a two figure sum. Within a few hours, they came back and offered several hundred. I couldn't believe that they had agreed so readily after arguing the toss for so long. However, a possible reason came that evening.... when the company featured on Anne Robinson's TV Watchdog program. I checked the internet and found masses of complaints about that chain store.... and they all sounded depressingly familiar.

A week or so after it had all been settled, we received a final phone call... to tell us that that they wanted to deliver the three piece suite that we were already sitting in!!!!!! That would have been three.... and our road simply can't cope with that kind of volume of sales.  

Shortly after all this, I bought a bed.... BUT, this time, I refused to deal with a chain store and went to that delight of a shop - Cornfoots family-owned enterprise of Herne Bay. I couldn't believe the difference. After making a selection, the salesman asked if I would like it delivered that afternoon!!!!! When it arrived, the delivery men carried it to the bedroom... avoiding the trolls, "Elf" and "Safe T". After a few minutes, I wondered why they were still up there. So, I investigated to see if "Elf" and "Safe T" had captured them. I found that the men were building it all.... including putting on the headboard. Apparently, it was all part of the Cornfoot service. 

Now, I hear rumours that Cornfoots may be due to close. If true... what an absolute tragedy! The loss of yet another institution?

Our Comment: Thanks, Vince. The Evans' "Roasted Peanuts - Toffee Apples" were some of the true sights and sounds of a Whitstable summer. When we have discussed this in the past, we have had some very welcome messages from members of the Evans family.

The Evans had trade bicycles with large boxes fitted to the front. These boxes were painted in bright colours depicting toffee apples and peanuts. In those days, there were many other trade bikes around - from butchers, bakers and newsagents. The ones I most remember were those operated by W H Smiths who had large counters in both booking halls of Whitstable station. The frames were red and the mudguards were white.

I don't know who painted the signs on the Evans' boxes but I could hazard a guess. There was an artist operating from a shed on the beach close to the Anderson, Rigden and Perkins yard in the 1950s/1960s. His name was Peter Dadd - a gentle, nervous chap who wore a cloth cap and blue raincoat in all weathers. He was responsible for many signs around town and was particularly sought after during the height of the motorbike years. He was often asked to paint crash helmets by bikers who wanted to deploy their own colours and symbols.

I always felt sad for Peter as he seemed quite lonely. During the 1970s, I played at a table tennis club organised by the Methodist Church in Argyle Road. Peter would turn up - not to play but just to have a chat and a cup of tea. I understand that, for company, he attended the social gatherings of quite a few local organisations. However, some local kids made his life a misery. In fact, on one occasion, a friend and I found him trapped in his shed as some local youngsters had placed a block of concrete across his door.

I am sure that some of our senior readers will be able to recall other street traders - such as the muffin man and the Wandering Minstrel of West Beach. (The wandering minstrel is the subject of one of our permanent articles - click here). These were a bit before my time... but I do remember someone delivering paraffin from an old van in the 1950s and the horses and carts of the Rigdens (greengrocer's) and Les Tolputt (rag and bone man).   

On the subject of weather, Whitstable has struggled through a heatwave and is currently enjoying pleasantly warm but windy conditions. This has led to a local tragedy. Brian (my tomato plant) has snapped in 'alf..... leaving  a dozen small green things as orphans. Emergency surgery has been undertaken and he is now in intensive care - a quiet and protected recess of the garden. Condolences and "get well" messages can be sent to the web site but Brian must be kept quiet for a few days. He cannot receive visitors.   

Our Comment: Thanks, Chris. I noticed a microwave being delivered up Tower Hill the other day. ;-)

Another pub that survived was just along Albert Street from the Fountain - The New Inn. It was my dad's local. He would pop in there for a half of mild while taking our border collie for a walk. The dog got to the point where he wouldn't pass the place without going in.

In fact, our idea to get a dog of that breed came from The New Inn. At one time, the landlord had a border collie and dad would walk it round the block in the evenings. When dad died back in the 1980s, several of the family popped into the pub a few days after the funeral. It was such a warm and friendly place.

PS I notice that this week's Whitstable Times has a couple of letters on the subject of The Whitstable Biennale contemporary art festival. It seems that I wasn't the only one underwhelmed by some of the exhibits. In particular, watch out for an impish letter from a resident of Island Wall. It had me choking on my coffee. ;-)

Our Comment: Thanks, Lawrence. At this point it would be worth me pointing out the article on the Fountain by John Butler (click here to view).

During the 1960s, the Fountain was used by a couple of football clubs with players meeting up for a pint after matches on a Sunday morning. I wonder how many winter Sunday roasts were ruined by that custom!!!!

I seem to recall that Ind Coope pubs were painted in a yellow and black livery. I don't think there were many in Whitstable but Ind Coope pubs became more evident as you moved west towards SE London.  Thinking back to those colours, it is possible the The Nelson (Harbour Street) was part of the chain.

Our Comment: Thanks, Tom. I have sent an email to you today. However, we appear to have a problem as this is the third message that I have sent to your address. If it gets through, could you send an acknowledgement. If it doesn't, could you email me at....

It might work if I can reply to one of your emails rather than send a fresh email.

Our Comment: Thanks, Chris and Rosie. There is no reason why the work of local churches shouldn't be mentioned on SW. Whatever individual beliefs might be, churches are and have always been a cornerstone of community life.

It's interesting to note the difference between the 1950s and the new Millennium when it comes to schools. In the old days, there appeared to be quite a system of special schools where children were sent for various problems. The most notable were approved schools (like St Vincents) for children with behavioural problems .... but there were others. I seem to recall going through a period when I didn't eat much at meal times.... whereupon mum told me that I could end up in a school for eating disorders!!!!

My father-in-law taught at a "residential" establishment called an "ESN" school. This served children from London and it was a horrendous acronym because it meant "Educationally Sub Normal". The idea was that it would meet the special needs of children with a below average IQ.  In fact, it ended up with children who were simply underperforming due to social and/or behavioural problems rather than IQ issues. I recall my father-in-law saying that he had been trained to cope with IQ issues but not deep psychological ones. In the end, he moved to the West Country to a very settled and true ESN school where he did some marvellous work. He always reckoned that he was a better teacher with struggling children than he would ever have been with pupils at the other end of the academic spectrum.

Nowadays, we have an increasingly different approach and the wonderfully PC term "inclusion". This enables most pupils to be taught in mainstream schools. It might work if all schools were totally under control and there was an unlimited amount of money to furnish every establishment with all the necessary resources to meet every educational need. However, I suspect the reality is rather different. I have come across various problems.

A friend's child was very happy and making good progress at a specialist school for autistic pupils. He was then moved to a mainstream school that had an "autistic unit". The problem was that the school was a disciplinary nightmare and any child with a learning difficulty was at the mercy of badly behaved pupils.

I served short period as a parent governor and was asked to sit on the Disciplinary Committee. Amongst other things, this "board" decided whether a child should be permanently excluded. It was a horrendous decision. On the one hand, a pupil might be so badly behaved that he was making education difficult or impossible for others. On the other, you faced the reality that exclusion could pretty much end the pupil's education at the age of 13. There was no special school with the expertise to get him back on the rails.

Nowadays, mainstream teachers are struggling to be more than mainstream teachers. They have to be psychologists, psychiatrists, policemen, lawyers, social workers, nurses, administrators, subject experts..... and gurus in every learning disability known to mankind. On top of that, some of them have to teach from basics to A-Level and beyond. Like my father-in-law, some teachers will be brilliant at some aspects but how many teachers can expect to be good at everything?

There have been some improvements of course such as the emergence of professional Learning Support Assistants and Special Educational Needs Units within mainstream schools. Often LSAs are better at handling learning difficulties than teachers. However, I still feel that there are real issues to be addressed.

I am not advocating a total return to the old days but, surely, there has to be a point where a child can be removed from the rigours of mainstrean education and given special education by well trained specialists in a suitable environment.  

Our Comment: Thanks, Robbie. I know we have a few ex-SJAB readers. Apart from the sterling medical work at various events, they also entered a float in the local carnival each year.

Our Comment: Thanks, Ian. That is certainly my recollection. The St Vincent's crocodile that I most remember was the one that made its way up to Church Street playing field. Although the school had a tarmac playground, it had no playing field of its own.

All this reminds me that so many schools used Church Street at times.... including Sir William Nottidge, Oxford Street Boys, St Mary's and St Vincents. In those days, it was a green swathe of springy turf beautifully maintained by the admirable groundsman, Mr Munday.

On the subject of crocodiles, I  spotted an unusual one in Whitstable High Street recently. The kids were all holding a rope to ensure that the crocodile remained a whole reptile. What will they think of next? It was either a school field trip.... or an attempt on Everest by the Junior Vertigo Association.  ;-) 

Our Comment: Thanks, Tony. I have always been a bit unclear about that particular school. As a kid in the 1950s, I was told that it was a church school for London children with problems. However, it was already using the name St Vincents.

I had no idea that it had later become an ordinary school as, by then, St Mary's had re-opened as the town's main catholic school.

Our Comment: Thanks, Brian. I doubt that it would be the artist's responsibility. I suspect that the event organisers would would have sorted out any permissions.

From comments made in the Visitors Book, the question of planning permission is a bit unclear for temporary art works. However, if, as I suspect, the land is owned by Canterbury City Council, some form of permission would have been necessary and the authority would have been involved. How much thought was applied? I really don't know. Nowadays, local authorities are very receptive to any  initiative that can employ the magic phrases.... "Good for local business"... and "A boost to the local economy". Whether anyone ever checks the detailed basis for such arguments is another matter. 

Our Comment: Thanks, Rosemary. I suppose your feelings about the work may be what was intended as the artist's explanation (published in the Gazette) includes the sentence.... "Both romantic and threatening, Beauty Spot asks the public to examine spatial order that feeds off and produces pleasure and fear". 

I have heard that one or two people found the work offensive. I have not joined the ranks of "the offended" but I do feel swamped by imported art and culture. This particular work demonstrates the point quite nicely. It is not just a neon tube. It is a combination of a neon tube and the natural surroundings within which it is strapped. The problem is that, for years, many people will have come to regard that quiet little scene on Tankerton Slopes as a natural work of art in it own right. In this respect, it could be argued that the tube was little more than a piece of imported graffiti scrawled across someone else's canvas with little sensitivity or recognition of people's feelings. It could also be argued that art is now allowed to trample over anything and everything with little  justification other than that someone, somewhere has deemed it to be art... and someone, somewhere else may make a bit of money out of it.

As I said a while ago, I don't object to Whitstable hosting art festivals but I have got to the point where I feel such festivals  are using the town as an enormous gallery and a set of natural materials without recognising that they are guests in our home. At the end of it, we are told that we should be grateful because it boosts the local economy. It might be true that it adds to the coffers of a few chippies, restaurants and pot shops but does it really make much financial difference to ordinary Joe and Joanna Soaps? The very least the organisers could do is to say "Thank you for having us" rather than expecting our gratitude.  Isn't this an important part of understanding "spatial order" and showing a basic awareness of what and whose space you are occupying!!!! 

Returning to the artwork, I must admit that I found it a bit self defeating. Whether the artist intended it or not, the nearby security guard became part of the so-called "spatial order" and therefore part of the artwork itself . In order to "examine spatial order feeding off and producing pleasure and fear", we actually needed a modicum of solitude....  rather than a security guy sitting on a public bench with a pile of sandwiches, a portable radio and a tube of insect repellant. Thus "art" inadvertently became a potential subject for ridicule. 

Surely even the world of art cannot miss the irony and comedy of an exhibit attempting to reflect a sense of fear while a 24 hour security guard attempts to munch through a tea cake just a few yards away.

Delicate things, "spatial orders"!!!!. They can get a bit out of control if you want to stop the local low life from putting an aesthetic boot through the aesthetics and electrics of your neon tube. Their "grand order" can also be tainted and  artificially reshuffled by the unwanted intrusion of a misplaced fluorescent sign and a supplementary security guard...... to the point where the process of "feeding" actually  leads to the self-consumption of the very thing that the artist is trying to capture. 

In other words, this bit of art actually disappeared up its own digestive system. ;-)

Our Comment: Thanks for the update, Neil. I think a lot of our readers will be interested.

The eventual decision is going to be somewhat amusing because I reckon that Kent County Council and Canterbury City Council have got themselves into a bit of a pickle. Let's examine what is, (in my view), the real reasoning for the current experimental traffic system....

1. The "one way" system was needed for no other reasons than to provide "on street" parking at Tower Hill.... at a time when most sensible traffic "gurus" nationwide would prefer to reduce street parking.

2. The "on street" parking was needed in order to secure lottery money for renovation of the Castle and grounds. (NB Parking was a concern because the Castle needed to be a viable self funding utility that could be administered by a Trust using income from functions such as weddings and conferences etc). 

3. The whole scheme allowed Canterbury City Council to offload much of the initial capital outlay and future maintenance costs of the Castle whilst giving Whitstable a smarter public park. (I'll let our readers decide which of these benefits was considered the more important up Military Road)

If the one way system becomes permanent, you could argue that KCC and CCC have effectively pawned control of our road system to the Castle project and National Lottery!!!!! On the other hand, if they ditch both the "one way system" and the "on street" parking, the Lottery people could start asking questions and the new Castle Trust could be left with function rooms it cannot hire out because no-one can park within half a  mile of the place. 

I wonder how united the two councils will be. The KCC are primarily concerned with running roads at an unfortunate time when the CCC have taken to offloading castles. It's only my guess but I can see custard pies hurtling between County Hall and Military Road at some point.

Of course, custard pies aren't necessarily the worst culinary disaster. The real danger is that we could end up with a joint KCC/CCC traffic trifle. In other words, they could vote to keep the "on street" parking but return to "two way" traffic. In summer, that would make it one of the most dangerous stretches of road in the town.

From past articles and comments on Simply Whitstable, we already know what a mess the experimental system has been. First of all, they restricted the "one-way" set up to the stretch between the Castle Gate and Park Avenue. This sent all westbound seafront traffic down the narrow Park Avenue where it had to negotiate the totally unsuitable junction with Tankerton Road. Then, they reviewed the mess and extended the "one way" traffic flow to the junction with St Annes Road. This was more sensible but we had road signs moving around like ants on an anthill (rather than a Tower Hill) and white paint sploshed everywhere. 

Meanwhile, there are some road safety time bombs waiting to explode. Two pedestrian crossings are proposed - one at the  Castle Gate and the other at the Tower Hill Tea Gardens . Both will be a nightmare unless someone realises that the slip road from Tower Hill needs to be sealed off and the grass verge outside The Castle bowling green needs to be kept clear of trees/shrubs. (It doesn't fill me with a great deal of confidence in the official thought processes when I see that the Castle garden plans include extra trees on that grass verge).

There will also be the general problem of pedestrians squeezing between parked vehicles at other points along the road when the Castle grounds eventually open..... and it will all happen on a road with two nasty bends and poor visibility. If a serious accident results, who will accept responsibility?

Now, it seems to me that there may have been yet another cockup.... because the traffic experiment has probably been implemented too early!!!!!  As Neil has pointed out, the system needed to be trialled once the Castle building and grounds  returned to full operation. The new traffic arrangements started in the Spring of 2009 but here we are in July 2010 and the Castle is still closed. In fact, a large section of the grounds resemble a building site!!!! So, for the best part of a year and a quarter, the one-way experiment has been testing very little apart from our patience. 

I understand that the Castle has been booked for a wedding in August. So, for the sake of the bride on her big day, let's assume that it is all going to be ready by then. At that stage, we will have just a few weeks to assess the traffic situation before Autumn arrives. What sort of a test will that be? After all, I very much doubt that the Castle building will be operating a full program this summer because, very wisely, many potential customers will have decided to give it a miss until it all settles down. Furthermore, August could turn out to be an English monsoon.

On a more general note, I  wonder just how self funding the Castle can be. Even with the new "on street" parking (much of which will be taken by beach users), the place is hardly going to win an award for accessibility. On top of that, it is a very awkward building with weird rooms - most of which are relatively small. I really don't envy poor old John Simmonds (Chairman of the Castle Trust) in his attempts to make this whole jamboree self funding. It could give him a financial headache of  "Horsebridge Arts Centre" proportions. It might work but it's going to be "touch and go".

Perhaps we should have negotiated a Castle deal with the black market rather than The Lottery....

"Wanna buy a cheap Castle, guv? Just look at them turrets and battlements. You'd pay a fortune for quality like that down at Dover. I tell you what.... I'll even throw in a road system? Can't be fairer than that..... now, can I?".

Bearing in mind that we also have some daft town centre traffic proposals rumbling along in reverse gear, why not scrap the JTB and put Mr Pastry in charge of Whitstable's roads and potholes. I just love custard pies.

Our Comment: Thanks, Geoff. We can't match your Washington DC temperatures just yet.... but 30 degrees centigrade and high humidity are forecast by the weekend.

The Guinea will bring back many memories for a lot of our readers. It was frequented by many people with a maritime or shipbuilding background. Mind you, that was back in the days when fishermen's cottages were occupied by fishermen rather than TV producers. ;-) 

Just to add in the missing names to your 1960s pub crawl the pubs would have been.... 

• Four Horse Shoes (Borstal Hill) 

• Two Brewers and Noah's Ark (Canterbury Road), 

• Railway Inn (corner of Belmont Road), 

• East Kent and Coach & Horses (Oxford Street), 

• Ship Centurion, Royal Naval Reserve (near Woolworths), Bear & Key and  Duke of Cumberland - all in the High Street

• The Nelson and The Punch (now The Quayside) - Harbour Street

You missed one - The Prince of Wales in the High Street (almost opposite the Royal Naval Reserve)

All this reminds me of the carnivals of a few years ago. The procession was preceded by a pram race with pairs of contestants in fancy dress. Each pair had a pram pusher and an "infant". They had to stop and drink a pint (or was it only a half) at each pub on the carnival route.

Our Comment: Hi, Jean. I can understand you being torn between Whitstable and Devon. For many years now, I have made regular trips to Devon to visit relatives (initially Ivybridge and, later, in Tavistock) . The Dartmoor area is one of the most beautiful parts of the UK. I suppose the only place I would rate alongside it would be the Lake District (in the winter when the tourists have gone home!!!!).

Our Comment: Thanks, Vince. If you try a Whitstable pub crawl nowadays, it'll be a lot shorter than 30 years ago. So many local pubs have closed over the years due to competition from supermarkets and cheap plonk from abroad.